Avatar Nation: S1 E07 — "The North"

In this episode of AVATAR NATION, Pauline and Wes discuss the recent departure of showrunner Albert Kim. They also talk through the penultimate episode’s flaws, changes to certain story elements, and the adaptation's approach to key moments from the original series. Despite their critique, they share their cautious anticipation for the finale, hoping for much improvement.

00:00 Intro

00:58 Opening

06:48 Episode Tea

10:32 Cabbage Ratings

13:08 Personal Key Moments

18:10 Episode Analysis

01:04:02 Favorite Bending Moment

01:05:55 Favorite Character

01:07:31 Animal Watch

01:08:56 Memorable Quotes

01:11:04 Closing Thoughts

01:13:10 Outro

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Chapters

• 0:58 Opening
• 6:48 Episode Tea
• 10:32 Cabbage Ratings
• 13:08 Personal Key Moments
• 18:10 Episode Analysis
• 1:04:02 Favorite Bending Moment
• 1:05:55 Favorite Character
• 1:07:31 Animal Watch
• 1:08:56 Memorable Quotes
• 1:11:04 Closing Thoughts

Transcript

0:19

Welcome to Avatar Nation, a podcast, all about the Netflix live adaptation

of Avatar: 0:24

the Last Airbender. Whether you're a longtime fan like us, or you're new to the Avatarverse, join us as we dive into each episode and analyze the retelling of TV's greatest adventure. Hello, Hello, friends! Welcome! I'm your host, Pauline. I'm Wes, and the Day of Black Sun is upon us. It is! So at the time of this recording, we're just before the solar eclipse. If you know, you know, Avatar fans. Real life Day of Black Sun. It will happen. Fire Nation, watch out. Are you excited for the solar eclipse? I am, yeah, I've been looking forward to it for months, Yeah, well apparently some people think it's going to be the end of the world and they're stocking up. Yeah, you you better pay your taxes. Buy toilet paper. Oh wait, you wouldn't pay your taxes. Don't pay your taxes if it's of the world, right? Government, please don't to us. Okay, so we are at the penultimate episode. Can you believe it? We have just one episode left after this one. Yeah hope it's better than this one. Yeah, so that's a spoiler alert for how we feel about this episode and how this conversation might go. It's gonna be, it's gonna be the same We'll see. So for those listening, Wes and I, we don't do a lot of discussing before we record the episode just because we want to save it for the podcast. Real quick though, I don't know what piece of I don't know if you guys saw, but there was recent news about the showrunner, Albert Kim, stepping down. So he is no longer going to be the showrunner for Seasons 2 and 3. He will remain as an executive producer, but apparently he's going to be moving on to Disney Plus as an executive producer for Percy Jackson. Mm. Money Talks. So Zoe, our daughter Zoe, she's a big fan of the Percy Jackson series and she started to read the book so I think she will be excited about that but moving forward it'll be Christine Boylan and Jabbar Raisani who will be taking the lead for Seasons 2 and 3. Christine Boylan, she is It's currently a co executive producer and she was the writer for the episode Omashu, and then Jabbar Raisani, he is currently an executive producer and he directed the episodes Omashu and Into the Dark, which are two episodes I really uh, Did she write in, so she was Omashu, did she write in, uh, the spy who wears red Did in Omashu? When it comes to writing, it really is a whole team of writers, so I don't want to go pointing the finger at, pointing my finger right at That might have also been, a director decision. There's also the whole costume re watch that and be like, they were like, of stands out. I liked the episode. I know you had thoughts. For those a shout out to Kevin. good friend Kevin, been listening and watching, and he was very upset about that. About the red Fire Yes, which we all were, right? Right, right? Oh yeah, he's definitely not alone in that. But I know you had thoughts about Omashu and it wasn't exactly your favorite. For those who haven't, go listen to that episode of ours. Wes has thoughts about Jet. And I don't think we agreed on a whole lot of things. Dark For that episode. But back to Jabbar Raisani, he was the visual effects I guess supervisor, whatever the title is, for Stranger Things, Game of Thrones. So it's no surprise that, he's probably a big reason why Avatar has been very visually appealing and just beautiful. I'm glad that he's going to continue forth in seasons two and three because then that means we'll continue to get Astonishing visual effects. So I'm okay with that decision. And like I said, with Christine Boylan, I liked the episode Omashu, so hopefully it just means that we'll have both good writing and, great visuals, even in Seasons 2 and 3. I know we need to go ahead and get into this episode because we have a lot of thoughts. And I know everybody else does, too. Before we get started, just a couple things. One, I want to highlight a comment that we got on Spotify from Neville B. About, and this was on our podcast. previous episode episode in masks, and they said best episode of season one by far. Having Mike DiMartino on this one clearly helped. Wish the creators hadn't been forced to leave. I agree. I mean, the episode masks was for me my highest rated. It was my favorite. You liked it as well. Do we know they were forced to leave? Think it I don't know if they, I, maybe it was there. I'd like to think it was their decision to leave. I, based on the statements they've put out, I feel I have yes. And I have to say, I don't think it was Mike that had his hand in writing the previous episode. I actually think it was Bryan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I believe you said Bryan last yes. And then also really quick. Don't forget to follow and subscribe to us so that way you don't miss out on future episodes, cause we are nearing the finale, it's just right around the corner yeah, we'd love If you give us a follow, and we also have more episodes planned after we watch the finale, so don't you worry this podcast is not ending any time soon, at least that is the plan, so if you keep listening to us and you subscribe and rate us, then hopefully we can go much Yeah, if you enjoy what you're listening to and the banter between me and my wife, sometimes it gets out of control, but we'd appreciate it if you follow, subscribe, and like us. all that, alright Pauline, are you ready to dive deep? Alright, let's I am ready! Let's do this. First, before we begin our analysis, Let's talk about our episode Tea. So, In other words, what is the tea for this episode? The title for this one is The North, and it is directed by Jet Wilkinson. She directed a few episodes of Percy Jackson over on Disney And This episode was written by Audrey Wong Kennedy, who is known for amazing stories on Apple TV which I don't really know anything about that. We don't watch any, we don't have Apple TV so we don't. I bet it's amazing. Yes so yeah, I feel like there's just a lot of overlap with the Percy Jackson series, which for those who don't know, is another adaptation. Um, That was, you know, the story is originally geared towards children, but now I feel like there are a lot of adults that grew up on the stories that are now watching it. It's over on Disney Like I said, our daughter Zoe is a big fan. What I've watched, really put together really well. Percy Jackson. From what I've watched. Don't, okay, guys, don't tell Zoe that I said this, but I think I could have been executed better. But. has potential. I'm not, I'm not, I've never read the book, so I'm not part of that fandom, but who knows? Maybe it'll pull me in. Wait, before we to that, we have Wait, before we get to that, we have to do our episode recap so we can remind everybody what happened in this episode, because a lot of fans have, long since watched this whole season and yeah, just want to remind everybody what this episode entailed. ready? Go for it. The episode opens with Prince Zuko appearing to have met his end at the hands of Zhao, however, we later learned that Zuko is in fact alive and disguised as part of Zhao's crew with the help of Iroh. Meanwhile, Team Avatar finally reaches Agna Qel'a. The Northern Water Tribe Capital. They are warmly welcomed by Chief Arnook, the renowned Master Pakku, and the chief's daughter, Princess Yue. feeling as though they already share a connection somehow. He recognizes her as the fox he met in the spirit world, and Yue reveals she is part spirit and kisses him. Aang, in the meantime, is starting to feel the burden of saving the waterbenders and seeks out guidance from Avatar Kuruk. However, Kuruk tales of battling against dark spirits and losing his beloved Ummi offer no easy answers. He advises Aang that he must face his upcoming challenges alone for the sake of his loved ones and the world. Meanwhile, Katara is eager to start water bending training under Yagoda, but soon discovers that women aren't allowed to fight in the Northern Water Tribe. Master Pakku doubles down on this and forbids her from being allowed into combat. Undeterred, she challenges Master Pakku to a dual. Though she doesn't win her skills, earn her respect from onlookers. She and Sokka convince Aang that he can't carry the burden alone. And vow to fight by his side. The episode closes with soot raining down on the Northern Water tribe indicating that the fire nation has arrived. dun, Dun, or I guess I should say dun, dun, dun. dun. How names like that? That was a tongue. Uh, I, I apologize if I got any names wrong. Well, good thing I can edit this, okay. My wife my wife was judging me the whole But for reading that! Okay, are you ready to give your cabbage rating? cabbage rating? I want you to go first, because I'm interested to hear what you've given episode. Okay, so, think. Um, So So for the last episode, I gave it a nine. You gave it an 8. So we, we rated it pretty high compared to some other episodes. You've had this, for the most part, you've had this trend of rating high and then low, high, low. So I have a feeling I know about what you're gonna rate this one. So I want to hear yours first. Okay, my cabbage rating is a 6. 5. Oh, 6. 5. Okay, just really briefly give us an overview of why you rated this one lower. Because I felt like nothing happened and, we'll get into this later, but this one lower. You You think so? so. Okay, that's interesting. I didn't We'll talk about Avatar, correct, rating? Come on. First of all, I want to say I'm not surprised by your Well, actually, I'm surprised it wasn't lower. Let me just say that. Okay. I'm trying to be nice here. My cabbage rating is a 5. Oh, right down the middle. This is my lowest rated episode so far. It is It was, I would say it was almost a tie between this one And Spirited Away, but if I were to re watch one of these, I would much rather watch Spirited Away over this one, so it had to be lower. If I were to sum up the whole episode in one word, it would be underwhelming. Which is not great because this is supposed to be a penultimate episode. And I'm just not feeling the excitement going into the finale. I feel like this episode was disjointed in some places, the cinematography felt flat. It was just kind of boring to watch. It was meh, Kind of boring watch. It was meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Is it Meh? Like that emoji from the Emoji Movie? There are some things that I liked about it but not enough to pull the rating up for me. I'm excited to talk about it, but I don't think they're for the right reasons. This might be very interesting. Yes. Okay. Let's go ahead and identify our personal key moments. So for those who may be listening for the first time this would be our Avatar State moment, or our favorite moment. Our That's Rough Buddy moment, which is our least favorite moment. And then our Honorable Mention, of course. Aptly named for our boy Zuko. Just something else that we liked about the episode. So let's go ahead and start with our Avatar state moment. Do you want to go first or do you go first, or do Woah! to You're gonna Keep this PG! you're gonna have So my Avatar State moment, I'm kind of kidding, but also not kidding. I just want to say the title card was my favorite moment because I thought it was so pretty when it showed the episode title and it was underwater and all blue. That was it. That was my Avatar State moment. The title card. Wow. If I were to be a little bit more serious and had to pick one, I would say maybe the waterbending fight. But I had issues with that too. So yeah, it was really hard to choose. I agree. It's it wasn't easy, But I am going to go with the twist, which I didn't see coming, which was Zhao tricking Zuko to get into the boat and then blow it up. I didn't see it coming. I mean, was wondering how they were going to do that. Or if they were going if they were going that. It's true, because there was no pirates, so. I found that refreshing because it was, I didn't see it coming, that's my Avatar State moment. That's a good one. That's a good one. I almost wanted to say that one, but then I feel like everything I've gushed about I said it. Did I say it better this time? you it a little better. Everything that I gushed about recently has been about Zuko and Iroh and all the Fire Nation scenes, so I feel like I had to try my best to not default to that this time around. Nation really pulled this episode for me. Alright. Are you ready for our That's Rough Buddy moment? Do you want me to go first? Okay for my That's Rough Buddy moment, it was Yue's wig. That was, that is, of hearing about this. is my main hang up with this episode, because they did Yue dirty, and I have thoughts, so. even though Pauline and I don't talk about the episode, I hear her talking to daughter about a wig and it just keeps coming up and now I know. I knew she was gonna say something about the wig. I thought it was fine. There was nothing wrong with her wig. what if it's a with her wig. It's not her hair. beard I'm just saying that Yue's wig didn't even seem like hair. There was no movement, there was no, it was stiff. stiff. stiff No, it was Okay, I can't believe I'm gonna say this. I'm only gonna say this once. It's gonna be officially on record, unfortunately, but this is where the movie that shall not be named actually performed better than this series. So far, and that was with Yue's costuming, her wig, her styling not like the acting or anything, because I, at times I did like this actress a little bit better, but, I mean, the movie had a better wig, I'm sorry, and it just, this Yue's wig took me out of the episode many, many times, and it was just really hard to focus.,What was your, that's rough buddy moment. That's Rough From From Kuruk. Even though you said that they're all horrible, that they're all horrible? what Oh, okay. I see what you're saying, That's I, I was, So that was, that's your Rough Buddy. Okay, forgot we were on. Rough Buddy for I had a brain fart there for a sec. So then, over to our Honorable Mention. Oh, okay. Yes, so I forgot I did put this here. So my Honorable Mention was the boat explosion for similar reasons that you had for shouting it out. I thought the way that they weaved this part of the story here was, I mean, it totally worked and for fans that knew what was coming, I think the surprise was, like you said, that it happened here. So I also was not expecting it. That was my honorable mention. What about you? My honorable mention would be Azula Standing up to her father. Mmm, okay. So you did like that? I loved it. Yeah. She ain't playing games no more. Done with the was a big change we'll definitely set aside time to talk about that. There were a lot of changes in this episode, but let's go ahead and just take this moment now to go ahead and dive deeper and talk about everything that happened. So I feel like this is going to, compared to our previous discussions, I feel like this is going to be a little bit more organic. I didn't do a lot of like structured notes. Yeah, didn't do any notes. do any notes. Like I said, that doesn't mean that we, I don't have thoughts because we have a lot of thoughts, so I was going to kind of see, where this conversation will take us. I want to first bring up the fact that there was no narration in this episode. Did you notice that? I didn't until now. I was of correct. It was either gonna be no narration or I thought that maybe Iroh would be the one narrating but I knew for sure that there was not gonna be a Gyatso narration and I'm gonna guess that in the finale there won't be one either because Gyatso is officially gone, I feel. that was a little bit So that was a little bit sad that there was no narration. I don't always, I'm not always a big fan of a ton of narration. true, I I could see that happening. And then as for the theme for this episode this is not super serious, but honestly, I just put, adults suck. That's the theme. The adults suck. What do you think? Because, think about all the adults in this episode. They are just a letdown. And it was kind of like that in the cartoon, because, it's from the point of view of a kid. So naturally, the kids are the ones. Taking charge and you're rooting for them and it's the adults that I don't want to say the villains, but they're the obstacles. But man, especially in this episode, like, all the adults just, they weren't any help. I'm to say not gonna say all of them, but most of them, yes. Iroh still help. Yes, okay, with the exception of Uncle Iroh. But you know, all of the new characters that we met, we'll talk about each of the characters, but that was what I thought the theme was. And again, not like super serious, but honestly, I felt like this episode was a little bit directionless. I don't know if you would agree or not with that but it just didn't feel like a very cohesive episode. I know there are themes of, burden, but it felt very flat to me, so that's why I'm gonna stick with the whole adult suck Okay. I would go with family, friends. What about family what about? The But what about? The theme is a little, it has to be, a theme is like deeper than that. It's not just love, family in Yeah, I can agree with you there. But yes, adults do suck. Adulting sucks. sucks. Adulting does suck. And then I want to talk about the Northern Water Tribe in general just real quick. So what is this, the capital city? It's called Agna Qel'a. Which I didn't realize that was the name, and it's not new for this series, it's actually from one of the Kyoshi novels so that's nice that they, pulled that little piece of world building have went with Northern Water Yes, but But as we know, the Water Northern Tribe is bigger than that. This is, one city. It was absolutely beautiful, though. as far as how the world looks and the setting of the Northern Water Tribe I thought they nailed it. And that was like one of the things that I enjoyed the most, was just what the setting looked like and the visuals with the different buildings and If I have one criticism, it would be that we didn't see enough of it for it being the first introduction to the Northern Water Tribe. If they would have spent a little bit more time informing, not just us, but informing our characters, or informing Team Avatar of the culture and Improving the world building by slowing down and taking more time to introduce us to the way of life in the Northern Water Tribe, then I think the episode would have had more depth, but it was pretty quick and we just kind of got right into the plot. Got right into the plot, you know what I mean? Yeah, think this a shorter At least it Yeah, I think this was a shorter episode. At least it felt like it. And then let's go ahead and talk about our characters because we were introduced to quite a few new characters in this one since i said that the adults suck let's go ahead and start with the adults how's that sound okay so with the northern water tribe we have chief Arnook who is Yue's father. What did you think of him? Were watching it for Yeah, He was of that way in the cartoon, too, though. I'm neutral about Chief Arnook. As a character himself he's not very helpful to Aang. He kind of laid the burden on Aang. I mean, he already mentioned that they knew that the Fire Nation is coming. And then it's, then they're like, Oh, well, thank goodness you're here now because you can help us defeat them. Yeah, they don't really treat Aang like he's a No, that's why I say they any help from the Avatar. Yeah, him and Pakku. Okay. Yeah. So let's go ahead and go over to Pakku then, because to be fair, when he did say, oh you should have spent more time training. I think that's a fair argument. Cause I feel like that's probably how us fans feel is like Aang hasn't done any waterbending. or even attempting to waterbend up you know up to this point so yeah it's like Aang maybe you should have taken some notes from the cartoon and all about self pity. I mean, he doesn't know what he's doing, doesn't and i mean i can appreciate that But it to an extent! I mean, he hasn't done, like you said, he's done nothing. He helped free villagers and how he got through all that, and he said, because of his friends. Yeah, but I mean, he still played a big part. His friends were unavailable whenever they were in the spirit world. And then he saved his friends and the villagers that were missing. But I just feel like it would have made more sense if, Aang would have tried to train with Katara, because obviously Katara's been training. She's already honed in her skills a little bit, and it's like, Katara, why haven't you been trying to help Aang with his waterbending in whatever limited way that you can? But anyways, he hasn't done any waterbending, so then why didn't Pakku offer to train Aang instead of turning around, walking away, and saying oh, they can't count on the Avatar. Well I was watching it and you're like, don't hold your breath don't hold on Aang water bending. I'm like, what? He's got to water bend. I mean, he hasn't even attempted, right? I don't think so, but Again, I'm trying to remember, Aang is just a kid, so then that's why I'm looking to the adults in the show, because now that we're adults, we have a different perspective on things, watching the show versus, when we were kids, and it's like, Pakku Arnook could've done a better job of reassuring him and being proactive in helping Aang prepare for the Fire Nation coming, cause it sounds like Aang went there, yes, to try to help save the Waterbenders, but he also went there hopefully train and, uh, grow as the Avatar, like he's supposed Avatar, as opposed Master procrastinating. they Master procrastinator. Oh, well, they did say like, oh, well, we've heard stories of you accomplishing this and fighting off these people and saving these villagers. And I guess, the story has gotten all sorts of twisted. you Okay, so then let's move on to Yagoda, who is the healer, and I don't have a whole lot of opinion about Yagoda, except for the fact that, why is she the one having to tell Katara that women aren't allowed to fight? Katara um, oh, we, she's aren't allowed uh, Netflix don't sugarcoat the patriarchy. Nickelodeon didn't, no. Up to that point, it almost felt like Pakku wasn't sexist at all. And I was wondering like, are they going to go there or are they not going to? And then I thought, oh, they're gonna have go to be the one to go there. And that just didn't feel right. But at the same time it's like, well, in reality sometimes, women hold back, other women. That way too, because Pakku wasn't sexist. Pakku was very sexist. No, I mean, it their culture that don't sexist. That's the patriarchy. Their culture, which is sexist. Okay. I disagree. You disagree that Pakku was sexist? Yes. Yes Okay! I think he is, in both the cartoon and in this their whole culture has outdated sexist values. And that was the point of the cartoon. That was the whole point of that episode with Katara dealing with all that. I will say though that In the scene with Yagoda, I really loved the healing dummies, or mannequins. Cause, That makes sense, that they would have something like that to practice healing. Actually, and the details. The water through the body in the healing process The details are very cool. It's like I wanted one, even though I can't waterbend. But it was pretty, it was fascinating. Yeah and I don't think I have anything else in Yagoda, do you? no other than she did look conflicted when she was telling Katara that women aren't allowed to fight Oh, you felt like she was conflicted? she was conflicted? Oh, interpreted it Oh, okay. I interpreted it as she was a little surprised that, maybe she's never had to deal with somebody asking that before or she hasn't come across another girl that's wanted to fight because that's just not how their culture is because that's not how their Mmm. see if mentioned Yeah, I don't know where they're going with it. And go ahead and move on gonna be way too fast. don't think it I didn't mind Avatar Kuruk that much. Um Mind Avatar Kuruk that much. Helped at all. I think it was helpful in his eyes by telling him, fight alone. Because you're at risk of losing your loved ones, one and two. So all of the avatar him. Two, having you might be hindered by the people that you care about because the people that you care about and then what the world needs, those can be in direct conflict with each other. That is my interpretation of that. And, yeah, pretty much all the Avatars have brought that up at some point but I feel like Avatar Kuruk was a lot more direct about it because of the things that he's gone through and the cartoon, we only get little inklings of what his story is but I believe everything that he said here is all things that come from the Kyoshi novels, and I'm interested to see if they're going to have an Avatar Kuruk novel as well, but, I didn't mind him. I thought he was more interesting than say, Avatar Roku, and just as interesting as Avatar yeah, you'd have to get more from him. He's kind of like Dr. Strange from Marvel, where he's like fighting, other dimensions , he was fighting the spirit world, so they all thought that he didn't really care about them or wasn't around to help them out, really he was probably saving Without, he was doing. They didn't know. So he probably got no thanks and his legacy isn't that great so I do feel bad for him to be honest and this scene made me want to learn more about Avatar Kuruk. and You know what happened, which he told Aang kind of told did, and then Aang didn't say anything. Right. came back, but whatever. Aang could've bailed him out there, but He could have like, made a difference a little bit, see this Hey, Princess Yue, by the way. you're right. He was a But no, he could have really bailed him out. Yeah, oh, also, can I also just say, I think Avatar Kuruk can kinda get it, he's not too bad looking. Can kinda get it? I mean, he's, I Lucky Ummi. She lost her Okay, not Lucky Ummi, I personally, for the most part, liked how they did Avatar Kuruk. He kind of looked like how I was expecting him to from the cartoons, he had the blue eyes. Blue eyes, maybe that's because he's angsty. He's the angsty Avatar. I got a I got a soft spot for, the angsty characters, I'm excited, I want, I'm ready to, I'm ready to watch the next episode. Out of all the episodes that we've watched, I'm ready to just move on and hopefully, what know what I mean? Hopefully I don't have the same feeling after With this one. Yeah. I agree with you there. Okay, let's move on to talking about the youth. Our kids. we going to do with Let's go ahead and start with Aang. I feel like They are not doing Aang's character justice, especially in this episode, I really felt like his inner conflict has been brushed aside because we get little hints of it in all the episodes, but they don't really let us, uh, sit with it enough, you know what I mean? Yeah, I'm just tired of the, oh, my friends, my friends, my friends. Well, that's the whole theme of your friends. Uh, You need to not, you can't have Yeah, okay, I will say it is getting a little bit tired. We get it. Aang wants to do this with his friends. He feels like he can only do this with the help of his friends, and everybody else is telling him, no, Yeah, I felt like we already went through this Yeah, already this lesson that you need to do this with Team Avatar It's not just gonna be you we've already learned that he's not gonna do it alone They've already went through this now. We're going back to you needed this alone I think that's we already learned this lesson That's, I think that's why this episode felt boring because we've been there, done that. Um, we had Bumi. We had Avatar Roku already imply it, said friends are a liability. So at this point, it's like, yes, we get it. So let's, let's go deeper with, Aang's inner conflict and move on, to a different aspect of that. I feel like they had potential when he did realize that, He could lose Sokka and Katara, they could die trying to help him. So I feel like I just needed to move further in that direction, but it just like touches the tip of the iceberg and then it's resolved by the end of the episode and I feel like that's how some of the other episodes have been too that with Aang's conflict and burdens that he's he's feeling it's addressed briefly and then they try to wrap it up by the end of the episode as if it didn't matter. goes back to what you were saying in our past episodes, which was, you don't have to keep telling us the obvious and keep telling us the obvious we're adults, we're grown up, I know there are kids watching, but, okay, Aang needs his friends, yes, we get it. I think because they, I mean We get it. I mean, this episode is very much focused on Katara. And, that part of the storyline with her challenging Pakku. And it's like they just needed to give Aang something to do and tie him into everything that's going on with Sokka and Katara. Without these character relationships, then, shows are very boring and very flat, but it's still feeling a bit disconnected. Aang, Katara, Sokka together, their relationship isn't uh, it's just feeling disconnected. We have Katara's conflict with Pakku and their character relationship. And so then that works. We have Sokka and his character relationship with Yue, which we'll get to. But at least that's, at least that's what, they're doing with Sokka here. So then we have Aang, who's kind of left hanging out over here. That's because he's told by the past avatars to leave your friends behind. This is the avatar has to do But then it's like, what are you doing with Aang in this episode? Give him something more than just, I need to talk No, he's got to a past another lesson that he needs his friends. Yeah he, they need to better tie him into they need to tie him into his friends a little bit better. You're talking about these relationships, so then, Do better with telling the story of their friendship and its development because I feel like it's not happening at this point. I'm not caring as much as I should about their friendship, even though it's supposed to be a main focal point. Why should we care at this point? They haven't been giving us a good reason to invest in their friendship with each other. And Aang needs something else to do besides, oh, need guidance from the Avatar, go to the shrine, the shrine. Yes, that's on the writers. Okay, let's move me, that's, On for him Okay, Okay, so besides her wig. So yes. So, I correct So I was correct in guessing that um, yeah, remember I was supposed to tell you and I forgot we were discussing it on a podcast episode that I feel like the fox is tied to a character that we haven't met yet, but I couldn't say it because I didn't want to get spoilers. And I was supposed to tell you who I thought about was. I felt like it had to be the voice of Yue and so it was. I just wasn't sure exactly how the fox was tied to her. I didn't think the fox was going to be her, but it turns out that she was literally the fox. And, thought that was a good twist. You like that, that it. was able to go into the spirit world in her dreams? Yeah, dreams? Yeah, just for I I mean, I think it makes sense if she has been Touched by spirits when she was a baby it makes sense. guide for the village and they show that she is a waterbender. I'm interested So I'm interested to see why they made that change. So for those who haven't seen the cartoon, Yue is not a waterbender at all in the original. not at so this, yeah, this is something completely new and I want to see if There's a good reason that they made her a waterbender. I hope it pays off in the next episode, otherwise it's like, Okay, this is really random. By the way, By the way, that ice cream looked I know, I really wanted to try it, but I think, I think they were licking off of the same spoon. Which kind of, ick. of I don't mean, they already got a thing okay, so about that. What what a good transition. So, Yue mentions that well, first we learn that she is engaged to Hahn. It was, an arranged Right, it was an arranged engagement. And then when she turned 16, which would have been recent because I don't think she's much older than 16, or maybe she is 16, she broke it off. And Hahn says that he doesn't know why. I didn't realize until watching it the second time that The reason that she broke it off is because she, quote unquote, met Sokka in her dreams. the man of her, er, the boy of her of her dreams, but here is my problem. Sokka was only there one time. That means that she only met Sokka one time, not really knowing who he is, of course, and the reason that He had a big heart. After that one meeting, he's the boy of your dreams and you call off your engagement? I understand wanting to call off an an arranged engagement if, Hahn is not who you imagine marrying. I get that. I just don't think the whole boy of my dreams is deserved yet at this point. at this point. that solidified the boy of her dreams, that showed his true character where she knew that she loved him Maybe. Maybe there's something deeper. Cause I guess you have to. It just seems so very surface level to me. And uh, really with any like, show or movie that, has romances like this, I tend to be a little bit more critical. Is it believable? see if, you know, is it believable? I don't think I don't think it's a good story. That is really weird to bring Fifty Shades of Grey into Avatar The Last Airbender. And that, that first of all, when I first started reading that years and years ago, I think before the book even came out my Kindle showed like, oh, here's a sample of this. Maybe you'd like it. And I read it and it was just a sample. So I didn't know what I was getting into. And then when the book came out, I actually read it. And it was like a train wreck you couldn't look away from. Nobody reads or watches that for the plot , cuz I mean, it's terrible, let's be honest. Anyways! Sidetracked.. tracked. big one. big I just do not find Yue and Sokka's infatuation with each other believable yet at this point. I guess it's just the you're the I guess it's just the whole, oh, you're the boy of my dreams. I don't get it. I don't get it. don't get I mean, Literally. Yes, but you are already gonna kiss him like you guys just met. It's romance, Ugh, I'm rolling my eyes. You are such a mom. I, okay, to be fair, I thought it wasn't necessarily that believable in the cartoon either um, He was going after her on her looks. She was going after him on his heart. So I don't see a problem with their Other than, she seems more justified than he You think so? that's fair. She loves him for who he is. Or likes him for who he is. He likes her because she's pretty. Let me just be clear though, I'm not against the ship whatsoever. I was just hoping that Netflix was going to add on way more to it and give it more depth than the cartoon has. they didn't have the Clearly. And that's why I, oh my gosh I wish they would have at least given the season 10 episodes. I think it really could have benefited from it. And this is one of the reasons why. But I, move on. Yeah. Do we need to go to Sokka, or? That's kind of why I listed Yue and Sokka right after each other. It was because, his part in this was very much tied in with Yue's. I didn't mind Sokka at all in this episode. I thought he had some funny lines. He's been pretty consistent for me throughout the season. So he was amusing to watch. That's really all I have to say about Sokka in this one. we're, like, looking for only negative things. no, We're trying to have Okay. Okay. Here, how about this? I do like how they made Sokka and uh, Yue's ex, like her ex wasn't a douche. Oh, Hahn? actually quite Let's go ahead and talk about and wanted Sokka's opinion and his knowledge to share with the fighters of the. Water Tribe? I thought that was cool, and I was waiting for them to be like, oh, he's secretly, A Chad. Chad. No, I thought they were eventually gonna make him out to be like he was in the cartoon. A Chad. I thought Chad was a good thing. don't think so I don't think so. No. I thought he was, I was waiting for him to become a Chad. At first I was not happy that they made Hahn nice, but then I had to reexamine it a little bit. It would've not made sense if, uh. If Hahn was outright a jerk to them because, they're, it's the Avatar and his crew, they're welcoming them into the city, so I feel like even if he didn't like Sokka for some reason, he wouldn't have outwardly been such a jerk to him because he is there with the Avatar. I Yeah, so I can see why they made that change in Hahn. Kind of boring though. Maybe that's it. Maybe I was like waiting for something to be injected in this episode that would have given it a little bit more life or a a little bit more, either drama or levity, something. Um, But, no. Okay, let's go ahead and talk about Katara. Like I said, this episode is very much focused on Katara. Which is sometimes nice because she's kind of blended into the background for most of the season for me. But let's go ahead and just dive right into her fight with Pakku. How did you feel about the way they adapted that fight from the cartoon? It felt like he held back a ton. he Either isn't very good master he held back. I don't know. He must have held back because one, he's not trying to actually hurt Katara. He just wants to teach her a lesson and, uh, deter her from wanting to fight. And I felt like that with cartoon Pakku too, he wasn't out for blood. He just wanted to I, yeah, he wanted to demobilize show her a lesson, how it's done. But all their movements super slow. I don't know if that's intentional. Are is it actually faster in real time? Are they slowing it down for us to show their movements or It it did feel slow? Is that. Was that how they bend? Are they, is Waterbender just super slow? I did feel like it was a little bit clunky. Like at first it started out good, but then especially when they're sliding on the ice. You expect it to be super speedy, but it did just feel slow and that's what made the fight fall flat for me. the fall flat Like it wasn't actually a fight. It, wasn't a fight. I I I will say that it, as far as like adapting what the fight looked like from the cartoon, I think it followed pretty closely. They had the ice discs. I really like the shot where they lifted it right from the cartoon where the ice disc flies right by his face and it goes slow motion and he sees his reflection. So that was cool that they brought that into the scene. But some of the visuals and like just the effects were a little bit off to me. You could really tell that it was like green screen or blue screen or whatever it is they use. Especially when Pakku was sliding on the ice and he was up in the air and doing some of his moves, it looked super fake. And so that kind of pulled me out of the scene a little bit. Yeah, it just didn't, it felt like a choreographed dance versus a fight. And if it was in real life and there is a battle like that going on, they would have used so much more room. People wouldn't be standing that close, because yeah. And they're all just kind of standing there. They, there wasn't really like a whole lot of reaction, especially for how close in proximity to the bending that they were. And so it just, all of it just felt a little bit off. Yeah, it's super slow, I kinda enjoyed it. Yeah. it's kind of interesting that it. If, for my Avatar State moment, if it wasn't the title card, it was gonna be this fight, but only because it at least breathed a little bit of life into the episode. It's almost like they saved all of the excitement for this. Well, if they saved it for Well, if saved it for this scene, they do a very good job. And I never saw Katara get the best of him, never saw Katara get the best of they're like, I've never seen Baku get backed up or whatever. I don't know. But she lost. and then Sokka's like, oh, well did you, did you lose? Well, I think he means more of uh, you may have actually lost the fight itself, but you've garnered the respect of, the people watching. And so in that way, that's a small victory in itself. way, that's a small victory itself. that way. Right, right. Between that and the lack of The dynamic relationships and character development it all just fell very flat with all of our people up here at the Northern the northern The episode. The whole episode. Well, no, actually, I wouldn't say the whole episode, I really do just mean with everything going on in the Northern Water Tribe. With Aang, Katara, Sokka and Cause you're right, because with Fire Lord Ozai and his daughter, that was a good one. That was good. But like I already mentioned earlier, like Aang, Katara, and Sokka, their characters just feel so disconnected from each other, and They feel more like isolated characters versus a trio, and I feel like if they don't fix this in the next episode and going into Season 2 their characters are just going to continue to suffer, because like I said, compared to our Fire Nation characters, it's like night and day difference, and that's why we loved the previous episode so much, because There really wasn't much of Katara and Sokka and even Aang because it was focused on Iroh and Zuko. my Katara and Sokka and you Aang um, because it on Iroh and maybe. I just don't it's a false feeling of, well, they did a great job here, even though they're kind of lacking in what we're wanting to see. Yeah, since we mentioned the Fire Nation, let's move over to, you what happened with the B plot. So first we have our attempted murder on Zuko. So you said, did you say this If you're calling that the B plot, it was way better than And I feel like it's been like that for a good portion of the season. So we already talked about how much we liked the whole boat explosion thing and that was something unexpected as far as the placement of it. As far as who was actually responsible for trying to kill Zuko? what was Lieutenant Jee? Why did he lie to them and say they were going over, he was over there going over fuel usage, that they didn't, he didn't want to tell them that they were Yeah, he probably didn't want to seem like he was not doing his job or that he was, goofing off and having a good time, and who knows, maybe he was supposed to be at a certain post at that point in time, or I guess I didn't see. I mean, if his loyalty is back to. Zuko, right? Which we're, that's what we're to believe, right? Yeah, I think so. Why couldn't you just say I was over there playing cards with, guy or I was trying to get information for you, Zuko. Because I think he was coaxed to come drink with this guy and he, he like, he fell, he kind of fell for it and then, yeah. Either way, he was doing something that he probably shouldn't have been doing. probably shouldn't have been doing. I poor He made a poor judgement call, and Right. They never, I mean And then they never really showed you that he was acting as a crew member for Zhao. I'm okay with how they did it, because especially for those who haven't seen it, I think they really wanted you to think, maybe he's hurt, or he is dying, or, he really did get caught then he was just suddenly with Zhao's crew. But then that's to subvert expectations. I want to say it was like that in the cartoon, too. In the cartoon, there, you have to look very closely, but you can see that Zuko does a move to protect himself during the explosion, but if you don't catch that, it very much looks like he was caught up in the explosion, and then you see him um, in disguise. I think they did fine With all of that, I thought that it was adapted very well. I think it was on here. Yeah. Also, I kind of feel bad for Lieutenant Jee, do you think he feels a little bit guilty? He just found out that Zuko saved him and his division, and then now it's like, oh, you kind of went and got Zuko killed. Yeah, I think if I was Zuko or Uncle Iroh, I would kinda be leery of Lt. Jee right now. I mean, I don't think he has, they have any reason to be suspicious of Why? Because he's shown his loyalty, well, if they ever find out he was lying, that he wasn't actually over going over fuel It was a looks sketchy. Yeah, I guess you're right. Okay, and then We have a couple of scenes where Zhao and Iroh interact, that tension that's building up I kinda liked how Zhao was very badly acting like, He cared about finding out who killed Zuko and that he, dang it. and what he Yeah, I really did like that. It was funny. like that. It was funny. Obviously, yes. Obviously, yes. But I do like how when Iroh said, I know who did it, and the way he looked right at Zhao and Zhao was like, oh crap, . but like oh crap. But then like double might be dangerous. That's possible, like a double meaning. meaning. But, either that or, I mean, they had a hunch that Zhao is, working with Azula, I think they kind of implied that they had that there's someone smarter behind So either Azula or Ozai So since we're talking about let's get with the dynamic between her and Ozai. What are your initial thoughts on I think he's was wanting to make sure that she is what he thought she was, which is a cold-blooded killer. Okay. She's his assassin he wanted to make sure that she's down. To party, you know what I mean? Now that they have hinted that she's a lightning bender And she was willing to almost do it to her father. So she'll definitely do it to her brother. I'm trying to think of what his game plan is. And what you're saying, it makes sense. I had a feeling that he was trying to push Azula to, to this point cause Ozai seems, like a very calculated dude. I'm just wondering, it just wasn't very clear is he wanting Azula to go after Zuko, because based on how they characterized him in the previous episode and all those flashbacks, He wants Zuko to rise to the occasion. So that's where I'm a little bit confused at. Where they're going with Ozai and his plans and what he's using Azula for. I just thought he was going about it a weird way. How do you know that Azula is going to get to a point where she says no to his quote unquote games? I don't know, maybe he was just putting her through that just to see what she, I mean, maybe that wasn't but it was a pleasant surprise. Like, He wants her to disobey him? That's what confused me, because one I've never known Azula to be one to, yeah, like out in the open, but again, as we keep saying, the cartoon is the cartoon. And we have to separate the two. So I get that. So yeah, there are different ways that they could go about it and it makes me a little bit nervous, but I'm curious. I am glad that we got to see a little bit of her lightning bending. I knew there was no way she was gonna actually aim at her dad, but I think she wanted to prove a point. there was no she was gonna actually No. her dad, but I think she wanted to point. See, that's what I'm expecting from him, is that, him holding Azula on a higher pedestal than Zuko. higher pedestal than that's I wonder, do you think she's gonna come into play? Well, no, there's no way that she would actually have any interaction with Aang, the Gaang, having anything to do with the A plot in the do with the A hope not. they that. the finale? They could, could, They could, but I don't think I'm gonna like that. for them. know. ruin or you could be like, holy good, but could be like, Pauline. Well, I were necessary for her to go against her father's games. They had to be there to tell her. messing totally playing with He knows that you're the best. Which, we don't know if she's the They needed to put Mei Mai and needed to put Mai and Ty Lee to push stop her dad from, Doing what they're what they're doing. Aside from that, I just feel like there's no point in having them there at this point in the story. Yeah, it's of them. Yeah, it's like, if you're going to have Mai and Ty Lee, put them to use. They don't necessarily have to be a big part of the plot, but have them do something besides just stand there and watch and then That's all they've feedback to. But I mean, they are they her conscience? Yeah, I think we've, I think we've talked about that before. You have Ty Lee who feeds her ego, but then you have Mai that also kind of brings her back down a little bit. That's why I was saying it's like her inner thoughts, but in, in physical form, but it's like, if you're going to have them there, at least do something that builds on their characters. Have Ty Lee be doing her acrobatics or, Mai training in the background, something, like if they're not there talking. Let's see a little bit more of their characters through their actions. And I can say the same thing about the Northern Water Tribe, when they were watching the fight between Pakku and Katara. You have all these people just standing around, but it's like, give a little something to add to your character. Even if you're a quote unquote background character, you're still somebody, like you're still somebody in the Northern Water Tribe. You have a story, even though us as an audience, we don't know what that is. Just give us a little bit, something besides just standing there. That's how I felt about Mai and Ty Lee. No, I would rather just have a whole episode on episode on them we but let's not dwell on something we can't fix. we can't fix. Because I didn't know where else to put this, but just a really quick fun fact, Katara has this line that she says to Aang at the end Something along the lines of, you're the one that's writing your story, the legend of Aang she, calls it that. she's talking about like, that's the past, You write your yeah, something, okay, the one that writes of Aang. Yes, and fun fact, that's the name of the show in a lot of countries. So instead of Avatar The Last Airbender, I'm talking about the cartoon specifically, it's called The Legend of Aang. So I thought so I would egg there. A little explanation Okay, you gotta explain the whole air sender thing. If you've watched, well, when you're watching The Last Airbender on air Pender for the live action, that is an S, not a B. You're talking about the logo, logo, right? Yes, The Last Airbender. Ah, yes. Wes says this every single time we start an episode where, they bring in the opening and they show avatar the last airbender, and he says that the B looks like an Yeah. can you mess up a B? It looks like the last air sender. I don't know. It says Airbender to me. Oh I like legend of Aang. That's pretty cool. Um, Was there anything else about this episode? We've talked a lot about the things we had issues with, and I know it felt very much like bashing, and it was like mostly negative, but to be fair, I feel like all the other episodes have been mostly positive for us with a few things here and there. I'm not saying this was a bad was a bad episode. Uhhhh. I'm not, and Not good. we just got the same lesson over and over, Yes I mean Like we've mentioned before we are, we're trying to look at this in a balanced way So it was inevitable that we were gonna come to an episode that we didn't like as much as the other ones Everything has its good and bad Aspects to it. This one just had more aspects that I I Yeah. And I don't know there's something so and I don't know I feel like there's something that like maybe we're missing something else that we Should have talked about but I don't know if it's worth I don't even want to go back and rewatch it. That's the thing part of what I judge an episode on is how excited am I to go back and re it. And this one is like, I don't, I don't want to re watch it. I didn't even want to re watch it for this podcast episode to be honest, and I know you didn't. I feel Like this podcast episode does feel a little bit different from our previous ones just because of our feelings with So, We're interested to see what everybody else thinks. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the episode that has the most complaints about it. complaints about it. You think? you mean? I mean, you could only go up from here. not make the last You know what I But it's supposed to be the penultimate episode. Like, It's supposed to get you excited to watch the next one. And it's has us excited to watch the next one, but for not good reasons, we want to one. Okay. So speaking of moving on, let's move on and Talk about our favorite bending moments. Did you have a favorite bending moment? We did have a lot of bending. bending. Yeah, I, the bending itself was good. Although we talked about how the water bending was super slow The visuals were fine. The visuals were good, yes. It was how other parts of it were executed, it was a little bit meh. eh. I liked, Azula fighting the Earthbender, and then, obviously, I liked the lightning. Like, how it built up. Yes, that was slow too, but that was purposely slowed down. Oh, you mean the lightning bending? Yes. that was done deliberately, and it tells us that lightning bending is special and it has its own special technique. So I get that. You mentioned the Earthbender. That's something we didn't bring up, is that they just have Earthbender prisoners that they use for training? How horrible is that? That's awful! Yeah, I was trying to figure out why the Earthbender, other than with the, like they're probably threatening him with death, but, but then if you don't fight, Yeah, but then if you don't you're doomed. So yeah, you're doomed you do, doomed if you don't. It's not really a win win for him. it's cruel. Mine is a tie between Katara's Ice Discs, which I already mentioned, and also the Lightning Bending, because that's the first time we've seen Lightning Bending, so it's like, oh, that's Bending, and so it's like, oh, that's cool. I want to new. I want to say the second time, but we saw the Discs first with Bumi, the Earth, Earth Discs. Okay, so what about favorite character for this episode? This is rough Um, my favorite character um, Momo! We got to see Momo! He ate a bug. He didn't eat a bug? Yeah, I thought he ate a bug. He ate something, right? The soot! Oh, was that Soot? At the end, you're talking about the end, right? I thought he came out and like, grabbed a bug. No, he ate soot, and that's how they Wow, I did not see that. I just like the cartoon. Which. let me Well, since you mentioned that though because I forgot to put this in my notes. So when he does that and then they look up and it's like, oh, the Fire Nation is here. And then Aang's like, okay. It's like, really guys, this is how we're gonna end it. It could've been a little bit more dramatic, but, whatever. It. Like, It could have been a little bit Um I like that he's he's out drinking with how he's like, he's uh, acting like he's like, He's, time. he's out doing what I'd be be Just Drink. yeah, that's it that's it for our favorite characters, have any, anything new on our animal watch? We got a little bit more of Appa and Momo, but asides from that, from that What is I really thought that, okay, they've got to throw in some, winter animal hybrid They're missing so many These are hybrid animals. You can make any animal you want and yet we're not getting I thought we were gonna see those what were those like that were swimming in the cartoon like at the beginning of this episode? They, it was like otter, some type of like otter hybrid. They were so cute. They were like swimming in the water. We didn't get those. I'm so disappointed. disappointed. Gators, I don't know, you could do so much, and they're not doing anything with Yeah, and I would still, even if it was just Appa and Momo, I'd love to see more of them. Um, More money to do well, yeah, definitely. you gotta have the budget for it, but it's like, if you're tackling Avatar, The Last Airbender, you have to know that you gotta have the budget for the animals, all the visuals. I mean, we had a cute little Appa moment here. I'd like to have more Momo moments. Or no, sorry, we had a Momo moment here, when you thought he was eating the bug, that wasn't a bug. But I'd like to see more Appa interactions, Especially with Aang, because I mean, come on that's his air bison. buddy. buddy. Okay, so let's move on then to memorable quotes. Did you even, you didn't write down down a memorable quote. I memorable quotes. You want to forget the whole thing. forget? I don't, was anything memorable about this episode? Don't even do a quote, was there anything memorable about Yue's wig. It Yue's I did write down a quote. What do you got? So this is, I have this only because it stood out to me while watching it. And nothing else did really, but I put. A quote from Yagoda, surprisingly, and it was the quote where she said, Healing is more than a physical process. It's about empathy. You must understand what it means to feel pain. And I chose that because it's something that I agree with. I like to think of myself as a very empathetic person. And I mean, I thought that too like, as a kid. I don't, I'm not one to shy away from painful emotions or sadness. Probably why a lot of the shows and movies that I like are ones with really sad moments because I really like those. But I think it's a good lesson to learn that You have to be able to deal with those emotions to be able to heal or help others heal. It's all about empathy. Anytime they bring empathy in, it's like, yes, preach. So, That was what I put for my memorable quote. That's a good quote. Yeah. Okay, what about our question of the week, Pauline? So, Don't be mad. But I did not get a question of the week out. I am sorry. Well, it was a domino effect. We were delayed with our previous episode, which then delayed us watching this episode, which then, by the time it came to remembering a question of the week. It was already too late. Like we were already here. So that's my bad guys. I take Responsibility for this one and the last one so I will try to do better for the next one for the next one. They forgive Finale has to I just think the finale has to bring it. Because this episode left me feeling not very optimistic about the next one. Here's the thing, what happens in the next episode, so the finale of season one, in the cartoon, is what completely pulled me into the series as a kid. It was that episode where I thought, oh my gosh, this is something really different and special, and I hope they continue making the show. It was the turning point for me. I really hope I feel that way about Netflix's finale, but I'm not optimistic about it, I'm not optimistic about it, yeah, this, the they be Yeah, or they saved the budget for the finale episode, finale episode. ton of animals. Oh, yeah. Well, there's two animals I'm thinking of that has to be there. No spoilers. No spoilers! That's not even a hybrid, though. No, but those are my thoughts for this episode. I'm sure there's more that I wanted to say that I didn't get to, but it's like I like beating a dead, wait, what's the saying? Beating, Where are you going with it? Beating a horse with a dead No, beating a dead Sorry, Peta, wants to beat a dead horse. Yeah, she said beating a dead a dead horse. don't Yeah, I am yeah, I am ready to move on. And I'm so grateful that people listen to this podcast. But I am so ready to be done with this one. next. Yes. Alright, guys. That wraps it up. We appreciate everyone who's been listening. If we've added even just five minutes of entertainment to your day, do us a huge favor and leave us a review, especially on Apple Podcast. it really helps us out. And you'd be helping other Avatar fans find this show. and make sure you subscribe to us, so you don't miss out on any future episodes. Absolutely, and we'd also love to connect with you, so don't forget to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. You can find us at AvatarNationPod. And just feel free to share your thoughts with us about everything so far, even if it's this episode. And who knows, we might just feature your comments on a future podcast episode. That wraps everything up. I'm Pauline. I'm Wes, And you've been listening to Avatar Nation. Hopefully this eclipse isn't the end of the world. Oh, no. See you next time, maybe. Love